Totally agree with all of this. Lately I've seen a lot of people also compare children to dogs which is really disturbing. Like, "why is some bratty kid allowed at a restaurant but not my precious doggo?" I made a comment once that I didn't like non-service dogs next to me while I'm eating and people acted like I was Cruella DeVille. But they can make casual "I hate people's spawn in restaurants" comments and people laugh it off. I'm sorry but children are human beings, they have more of a right to be there than an animal.
My attitude towards it is: if you don't like dogs, don't go to dog friendly places. If you don't like children, don't go to children friendly places. It's not difficult.
I don't have kids. That's not by choice, but since I don't wear a t-shirt proclaiming that, people often assume I'm going to be receptive to their rants about children.
Once I went to the Lincoln Park Zoo with my husband and another childless couple. One of the pair started complaining about all of the children standing in the way of displays. I didn't know her well, so I said mildly, "Well, it is a children's zoo"
My husband and I went to Disney last year, by ourselves. It was a lovely time. Afterward so many people asked us if it was horrible to be around all those screaming kids.
Um. No. Actually, it turns out that Disney really is the happiest place on earth. The only person I saw melt down in an entire *week* in the Disney bubble was a mom whose children were not retrieving ponchos quickly enough in a downpour.
But the children? They were charming. It's *Disney* for goodness sake. There are suppose to be children there.
And there were so many moments where I thought, "Oh I wish I could experience with my bestie and her kids" or "Oh my nieces would love this, I wish I could be here when they experience it"
An adults only lounge is fine. I do like doing things that don't involve kids. The afore mentioned bestie and I intentionally plan things without her kids from time to time, because that's a different type of enjoyable.
But it's ridiculous for people to act like kids are ruining their experience of the world, simply by being there.
My wife and I are in the same boat of not being able to have kids. We went to Disney with her family in June and it was amazing seeing it through my niece and nephew’s eyes. They were in awe of everything.
The Disney Adults were far more annoying than the kids. Kids just want to stare at everything. The Disney Adults have to get the perfect photo, or the perfect spot. It was exhausting watching them
I have to say, one of the unexpected pleasures of parenthood has been the reaction of other adults (mostly parents themselves, I assume) to my children's public temper tantrums. There's the guy who joked, "enjoy every moment!" when my 3yo daughter was thrashing around during a rare attempt at a family photo, to the woman who said to me while my daughter flatlined on the floor at Target, "It's so hard. You're doing great." The "you're doing great mamas" could be read as condescending, but I prefer to think of them as conveying solidarity. And soooo many fellow airplane passengers have helped us carry the absurd amount of stuff it takes to travel with two toddlers.
No, I think you have it right! At least, I hope I don’t come across as condescending if it’s not my kid having the tantrum for once or if I am out solo. There definitely is that insider community of adults who clearly love kids but have no illusions about the range of possible behaviors that can happen. Catching another parent’s eye and sighing together makes me feel so much less alone!
Thanks for this article! So many places that used to be if not “for kids” At least were encouraging of them. I remember fondly all the different indoor play places at various fast food restaurants in my hometown. Now they all have a weird “upscale” cafe vibe and no play place so I don’t take my children. What I would give for a McDonalds play place in the middle of winter rather than having to pay $25 per child for an indoor playground with no food.
As I approach 70 years on this planet and think about downsizing, people tell me I should move to an over-55 community. Most of those communities are governed by HOAs, which I could never tolerate, but most of all I would sorely miss my neighbor kids. I enjoy hearing the shrieks of delight as they play, don’t mind tripping over the toys left in my yard at all, but most of all I think during my conversations with the young folk I probably learn more from them than they do from me. Sorry, I just don’t get people who don’t like kids, just as much as I don’t get people who don’t like foreigners, people of color or old folks.
Great piece, with so many excellent lines. "I didn’t, and still don’t, believe we should be hidden away because he was dying and they were just recently alive." Heartbreaking and beautifully put.
Love this! It’s interesting to me that (at least in my area), breweries are becoming a third space for families. I wish more places felt more welcoming to kids. I agree it can be so isolating if your options are your house or the park.
Interestingly, I think I just saw something in the NYT about a backlash to this! I tried to find the article but essentially more breweries are looking to ban kids :(
That’s so lame and also they’re going to lose a ton of business that way! The ones by me that allow kids are packed, and then tend to be empty once the families leave in the early evening.
Perhaps, if children were more welcome, it would bring about generally better behaved children in public. If they are used to being out among other people and their parents discipline them, then they’d probably be quite good in public.
My stepsister once said “I just don’t like kids” as though it was a legitimate excuse for being actively unkind to my then two year old. My step sister was hungover and my daughter was…existing? Playing? I said “I’m not asking you to babysit. But you will treat her with the same respect you’d extend to any other human being.” On their birthdays, she texts “happy birthday James/Lucy” just like that, and only because my step mom makes her. When she’s in town she ignores them unless it’s absolutely necessary to interact. Blows. My. Mind.
The people who can't handle other people's children in public spaces seem to overlap with the type of people who say they didn't "ask to be born" to justify their idiosyncratic views about what their parents/society owes them.
The social contract is just fucked. Everyone thinks they’re the main character about whom all others must revolve. There is very little grace, compromise, or understanding shown to others.
Well said! We were all kids at one time unless you were born an adult size person (pity that mom!!). Get over yourself if you lack the joy/humanity of seeing a family together trying to enjoy a meal, flight, vacation, any stolen moment!
I'm childless not by choice. My husband and I enjoyed going to the adult only night at a science museum because we've thought about going to the science museum ourselves but wasn't sure if it was weird to go without bringing kids of our own.
Fwiw, I went to the science museum, zoo, etc. before we had kids and after. I think it’s great when adults enjoy these spaces! You don’t need to bring a child. I only ever take issue when said adults resent sharing space with children.
I think part of the problem is that people almost categorize raising children now into “hobbies” where they treat it like it’s the equivalent of training for a marathon or walking their dog - things are meaningful but also very optional and self-selecting. I don’t think people realize how dark and scary and dystopian the world would be if we didn’t have future generations of humans entering the world.
Oh! Thank you so much for this. After being honked today because I was taking to long putting my asleep 7month old daughter in the car AND feeling bad about it, I really needed to feel I Did diserve 1 minute of patience from this lady.
Totally agree with all of this. Lately I've seen a lot of people also compare children to dogs which is really disturbing. Like, "why is some bratty kid allowed at a restaurant but not my precious doggo?" I made a comment once that I didn't like non-service dogs next to me while I'm eating and people acted like I was Cruella DeVille. But they can make casual "I hate people's spawn in restaurants" comments and people laugh it off. I'm sorry but children are human beings, they have more of a right to be there than an animal.
My attitude towards it is: if you don't like dogs, don't go to dog friendly places. If you don't like children, don't go to children friendly places. It's not difficult.
Great thoughts.
I don't have kids. That's not by choice, but since I don't wear a t-shirt proclaiming that, people often assume I'm going to be receptive to their rants about children.
Once I went to the Lincoln Park Zoo with my husband and another childless couple. One of the pair started complaining about all of the children standing in the way of displays. I didn't know her well, so I said mildly, "Well, it is a children's zoo"
My husband and I went to Disney last year, by ourselves. It was a lovely time. Afterward so many people asked us if it was horrible to be around all those screaming kids.
Um. No. Actually, it turns out that Disney really is the happiest place on earth. The only person I saw melt down in an entire *week* in the Disney bubble was a mom whose children were not retrieving ponchos quickly enough in a downpour.
But the children? They were charming. It's *Disney* for goodness sake. There are suppose to be children there.
And there were so many moments where I thought, "Oh I wish I could experience with my bestie and her kids" or "Oh my nieces would love this, I wish I could be here when they experience it"
An adults only lounge is fine. I do like doing things that don't involve kids. The afore mentioned bestie and I intentionally plan things without her kids from time to time, because that's a different type of enjoyable.
But it's ridiculous for people to act like kids are ruining their experience of the world, simply by being there.
My wife and I are in the same boat of not being able to have kids. We went to Disney with her family in June and it was amazing seeing it through my niece and nephew’s eyes. They were in awe of everything.
The Disney Adults were far more annoying than the kids. Kids just want to stare at everything. The Disney Adults have to get the perfect photo, or the perfect spot. It was exhausting watching them
Disney adults are definitely a shining example of what the author said about people who hate kids because they want to be society's baby.
I have to say, one of the unexpected pleasures of parenthood has been the reaction of other adults (mostly parents themselves, I assume) to my children's public temper tantrums. There's the guy who joked, "enjoy every moment!" when my 3yo daughter was thrashing around during a rare attempt at a family photo, to the woman who said to me while my daughter flatlined on the floor at Target, "It's so hard. You're doing great." The "you're doing great mamas" could be read as condescending, but I prefer to think of them as conveying solidarity. And soooo many fellow airplane passengers have helped us carry the absurd amount of stuff it takes to travel with two toddlers.
Ignore the haters. Most people get it.
No, I think you have it right! At least, I hope I don’t come across as condescending if it’s not my kid having the tantrum for once or if I am out solo. There definitely is that insider community of adults who clearly love kids but have no illusions about the range of possible behaviors that can happen. Catching another parent’s eye and sighing together makes me feel so much less alone!
The irony of a Disney adult complaining about “spoiled children”.
Thanks for this article! So many places that used to be if not “for kids” At least were encouraging of them. I remember fondly all the different indoor play places at various fast food restaurants in my hometown. Now they all have a weird “upscale” cafe vibe and no play place so I don’t take my children. What I would give for a McDonalds play place in the middle of winter rather than having to pay $25 per child for an indoor playground with no food.
As I approach 70 years on this planet and think about downsizing, people tell me I should move to an over-55 community. Most of those communities are governed by HOAs, which I could never tolerate, but most of all I would sorely miss my neighbor kids. I enjoy hearing the shrieks of delight as they play, don’t mind tripping over the toys left in my yard at all, but most of all I think during my conversations with the young folk I probably learn more from them than they do from me. Sorry, I just don’t get people who don’t like kids, just as much as I don’t get people who don’t like foreigners, people of color or old folks.
Great piece, with so many excellent lines. "I didn’t, and still don’t, believe we should be hidden away because he was dying and they were just recently alive." Heartbreaking and beautifully put.
Love this! It’s interesting to me that (at least in my area), breweries are becoming a third space for families. I wish more places felt more welcoming to kids. I agree it can be so isolating if your options are your house or the park.
Interestingly, I think I just saw something in the NYT about a backlash to this! I tried to find the article but essentially more breweries are looking to ban kids :(
That’s so lame and also they’re going to lose a ton of business that way! The ones by me that allow kids are packed, and then tend to be empty once the families leave in the early evening.
Perhaps, if children were more welcome, it would bring about generally better behaved children in public. If they are used to being out among other people and their parents discipline them, then they’d probably be quite good in public.
My stepsister once said “I just don’t like kids” as though it was a legitimate excuse for being actively unkind to my then two year old. My step sister was hungover and my daughter was…existing? Playing? I said “I’m not asking you to babysit. But you will treat her with the same respect you’d extend to any other human being.” On their birthdays, she texts “happy birthday James/Lucy” just like that, and only because my step mom makes her. When she’s in town she ignores them unless it’s absolutely necessary to interact. Blows. My. Mind.
The people who can't handle other people's children in public spaces seem to overlap with the type of people who say they didn't "ask to be born" to justify their idiosyncratic views about what their parents/society owes them.
The social contract is just fucked. Everyone thinks they’re the main character about whom all others must revolve. There is very little grace, compromise, or understanding shown to others.
Well said! We were all kids at one time unless you were born an adult size person (pity that mom!!). Get over yourself if you lack the joy/humanity of seeing a family together trying to enjoy a meal, flight, vacation, any stolen moment!
I'm childless not by choice. My husband and I enjoyed going to the adult only night at a science museum because we've thought about going to the science museum ourselves but wasn't sure if it was weird to go without bringing kids of our own.
Fwiw, I went to the science museum, zoo, etc. before we had kids and after. I think it’s great when adults enjoy these spaces! You don’t need to bring a child. I only ever take issue when said adults resent sharing space with children.
I think part of the problem is that people almost categorize raising children now into “hobbies” where they treat it like it’s the equivalent of training for a marathon or walking their dog - things are meaningful but also very optional and self-selecting. I don’t think people realize how dark and scary and dystopian the world would be if we didn’t have future generations of humans entering the world.
Oh! Thank you so much for this. After being honked today because I was taking to long putting my asleep 7month old daughter in the car AND feeling bad about it, I really needed to feel I Did diserve 1 minute of patience from this lady.